Shredding Stereotypes: a Q&A with Women and Non-Binary Skaters

a portion of this interview was featured in Golden Magazine Issue 01

From the outside looking in, skateboarding is commonly misperceived. Whether it be solely a way of transportation, a counter-culture to organized sports, an annoyance to old people, a great video game, etc., society's perspective of skateboarding is broad and the list could go on forever. In a subculture like skateboarding, an outsider’s perspective rarely captures what it truly means to be part of the inside, so to get a better understanding, I asked some tried and true skaters what skating means to them. Follow along as I talk to Alana, Anna, Jenny, and Ruby about their experiences being a part of the skateboarding community.

Key:

AS - Alana Smith: USA Olympic Women’s Skateboarding Team

AN - Anna Ngo: Femme Fatale Skate

RC - Ruby Charney: Skate Like a Girl

JJ - Jenny Johnson: Femme Fatale Skate

Thank you for your time today!  I would love it if you could start off by introducing yourself? (your name, how you identify, where you’re from, what organizations you’re involved with)

AS: Thank you for your time! My names Alana Smith, my pronouns are they/she I’m from Mesa, Az currently residing in Fort Worth, Tx. I’m not technically apart of any organizations but adidas is one of my sponsors, I try to use my platform to advocate for minority groups and some organizations revolving that I feel are great to help are Eji.org and The Trevor project. 

AN: My name is Anna Ngo, my pronouns are she/her, I’m from Minnesota currently living in Hawaii, and I’m involved with Femme Fatale and 3rd Lair.

RC: My name is Ruby and I use she/her pronouns. I’m currently in Seattle and headed to Minneapolis next year! I’m involved with Skate Like a Girl. 

JJ: My name is Jenny Johnson, and I use she/her pronouns. I grew up in Duluth but moved to the Twin Cities for college in 2012 so I’ve been here for almost 9 years and consider it home. I help run the Femme Fatale Skate group which is a group that aims to build community and opportunities for the women, trans and non binary skaters of Minnesota. We started in 2018 and are looking forward to the 4th year getting started soon.

When did you find skateboarding? (how did you get involved, how old were you, who taught you, ect.) 

AS: I grew up dirt biking with my biological dad and we sat down to watch xgames one day and women’s vert came on. I sat there so amazed and just thought to myself “ I have to do this “ begged my biological parents for a board and finally got one when I was about 8. 

AN:  I found skateboarding through friends when I was 15 years old (7 years ago). At first, I was really intimidated so I never skate often, but once I found my community I started progressing and really feeling the benefits of skating. I’m a part of such a wonderful skate family and have met so many amazing people through skating. I’ll never forget the day Jenny came up to me while I was skating asking me if I was interested in starting a women, transgender and nonbinary skate community. We’ve hosted 2 skate jams and many skate meetups and I couldn’t be more stoked on the impact Femme Fatale has on the Minneapolis skate community.

RC: I first found skating when I was 12. I was always interested in activities that were not “typical” for my gender and decided that it would be cool to learn how to skate. I started by teaching myself and then even got some of my guy friends to start. 

Around that time, my mom signed me up for a Skate Like a Girl camp and I remember showing up to a group of 4 other skaters and a main instructor  (Kristin Ebeling), all of whom made me feel like I had a place there. The amazing part was that none of them were cis-gendered men. They also were my age and my skill level! 

We toured a different skatepark every day of the week as a group which was so awesome because we all felt comfortable taking up space at each park since we were together. It was my first real introduction to community building and helped me understand what it meant to empower each other. Skill level didn’t matter, what mattered was that we were all there together having fun. 

Another great part was that Kristin is an AMAZING skateboarder. But she took the time to teach us tricks, skatepark etiquette, skate culture, and how to take up space. She never made it seem like she was better than us and she showed up for us every day. That had a HUGE impact on my skate journey.

JJ: I never skated as a kid or had the desire to try. I got my first handed down skateboard at age 19 or 20 but only used it sporadically. When I got a DWI at age 23 and lost my license for a year, I got a cruiser board and used it to get from my house to the bus stop to work. I loved the feeling of smooth sailing down the street instead of walking/running down the sidewalk. My ex partner and still friend Andrew Helminiak was the biggest supporter and influence on my early skating. He took me to skateparks and on cruises and hyped me up and made sure I felt comfortable.

In the winter of 2017/18 I began skating at the Familia HQ indoor park. I started running into more girls there. Literally running up to each other so stoked to see another girl like “Hey! What’s your name! Where do you skate! What kind of board do you have! Let’s get each other’s IGs so we can skate together!” Instagram was getting super big and you saw lots of women skate crews around the world so we thought hey we can do this here. There was maybe 5 or 6 girl skaters I met so far so we got a crew going and my friend Claire put out a tweet to let others know we’re starting a crew. We got an IG group chat going that I named ‘sk8hoez’ to be funny. We ended up maxing out the IG group chat capacity so we decided to make a page and needed a name. Someone suggested Femme Fatale and we went with it! To be clear, we weren’t the first women skate crew in the city, but we hadn’t met or heard of any others at the time.

Did the way you identify present barriers when you first started skateboarding? How do you see those barriers manifest in your current relationship with boarding? 

AS: I feel as if the biggest barrier still to this day in skateboarding like most industries is being a female. I feel like people made assumptions that I was gay purely based on the stereotypes that all female skaters are gay. Which I guess jokes on them I’m bi so they were only partially correct. 

AN: Being a woman is definitely a barrier to skateboarding, but through the support of 3rd Lair, my friends, and Femme Fatale, I learned that there is forsure space for people like me. I just had to stop being scared and just go for it!

However, almost every time I’m at the skatepark by myself, there is a guy telling me how to do something. Unsolicited “help” or mansplaining as I’d consider it.

There are definitely still barriers, but for the most part I feel like I have a home within skating.

RC: Definitely- I noticed that when I would show up to the park by myself, I felt like I had to put on some kind of performance. I sometimes had a difficult time just being able to show up and skate without any pressure because it felt like all eyes were on me as soon as I showed up. So, it sort of became this thing of why even go skate? Because I knew that I wouldn’t genuinely be enjoying it. 

I saw a huge difference when I would show up with my SLAG (Skate Like a Girl) friends. We would just tear the place up and not have any care about what anyone else was doing. So, I just tried to figure out ways that I can do that when showing up by myself. 

I tried to make connections at the skatepark with the local dudes and I did, but then things would often get weird with them which sucked because I just wanted to be their friends and feel comfortable at the park!  It was a huge bummer because I still felt this pressure to put on this fake persona. This was also a time where I was navigating my sexual orientation and I didn’t really feel like I could express that because then I would just fit into this negative stereotype of female skaters and wouldn't be respected. That sucked and just goes to show how patriarchal structures are huge in skating. 

These barriers are still alive and well in my current relationship with skating but I feel like I am able to navigate them better now. Sometimes it gets pretty overwhelming because I still feel this pressure to land the trick I’m doing in order to be taken seriously and it can be draining to show up and take up space at a park. For me, it takes a lot of energy, self talk and confidence to show up at a park and skate it for a while. I’m not sure and don’t want to speak for others, but sometimes it feels like cis-gendered men can just shwo up and have a good time without any second thought about how their gender identity will affect their abiity to take up space at the park. 

What I do now is a little “self-talk shell” where I remind myself that I don’t need to perform for anyone but myself. I’m allowed to be here and I am allowed to take up space, the only person holding me back is myself. Any judgment is all in my head and if I just keep this little shell on, then anyone who has anything negative to say will just bounce right off me and back onto them. This helps me break through that gender barrier when skating!

JJ: Absolutely. In 2017 there wasn’t as many women skaters out and about in our city as there are today. They were here, just not visible to me. I wouldn’t go to a skatepark alone back then because I was worried people would be mean to me! I had imposter syndrome so bad because I wasn’t at a certain skill level. I felt I had to dress a certain way (baggy clothes, not too girly) to avoid being seen as a ‘ramp tramp’ which is an example of how rape culture permeates skate culture. I didn’t think I deserved to take up space at a park. I can’t lie I still feel imposter syndrome from time to time. There is a lot of toxicity in skateboarding as far as who is a ‘poser’ and who is legit. It took a while to learn that the people who care about that kind of shit are just insecure about their own identities and feel the need to be the gatekeepers of a toxic culture within skateboarding. 

Also, I don’t feel comfortable dropping in, which is generally considered one of the first skills you should learn. It psyches me out and I will master drop-ins someday, but for now I kind of like sharing that with people when they feel down about not knowing ‘basic tricks.’ Everyone learns at a different pace!

Skateboarding is often described as a “counter-culture” activity. That being said, some people feel as though  many communities (women, minorities, LGBTQ+) are not included in that culture. Do you agree? How do the communities you’re involved with lessen those feelings of exclusiveness, if at all? 

AS: Wow this is a really great question.  

AN:  Femme Fatale helps me feel included and like I “belong”.

3rd lair gives me the resources and the extra push to not be afraid and put myself out there. The support they provide me with is so much more than product, they give me motivation, family, and love!

RC: When I first started, there was much less awareness and the male-dominated environment was clear as day. So, for me at least, it felt more difficult to be my true authentic self and still feel like I had space in the skate community. With meet-ups, events, media, programs and clinics that are all focused on empowerment, creating space and celebrating various identities in skateboarding, it brings a new light to skating. It has shifted to this idea that no one should be left out of such a beautiful sport. And the best part is that a ton of guys are involved with SLAG and just supporting this new wave overall. I think that’s really important, because it shows that we can all acknowledge these different identities but still come together as a whole community. 

I think skateboarding is starting to become much more inclusive especially now that we have so many folks on board (literally). We still have a loong way to go, but it’s getting much better. By this I mean having groups such as Unity Skateboarding & Skate Like a Girl, companies like There Skateboards, Krux Trucks, and just overall more awareness and action when it comes to creating safe spaces for these communities. It’s super awesome to see because it brings this sense of belonging and acknowledgement towards our identities. We are spreading this message that anyone can skate and identify as they want, and one’s identity should be celebrated rather than excluded or dismissed. It also gives us the space and opportunity for self-discovery. Through SLAG, I became more comfortable with my sexual orientation and have started feeling more fluid about my gender. If it weren’t for surrounding myself with people who understand and love me for me, then I’m not sure if the process would have been this easy. 

JJ: Yup! Haha. I’ve met so many adult women who say they always wanted to learn but were intimidated by the culture around skateboarding. Like I’ve said above there’s a lot of reasons why skateboarding has been a majority white man dominated industry. Even when you look at ads today in skate magazines you don’t often see larger body types being celebrated the way you see thin bodies. The good thing is that there’s an ever growing counter culture within skateboarding that fights against these ways of thinking. A big one that comes to mind is Unity. They’ve done a great job at highlighting trans skaters and those with larger body types. 

Femme Fatale really tries to address the intimidation factor of the skateparks which are usually male dominated and can be scary to beginner skaters. We have hosted weekly meetups and bigger events specifically for women, trans and non-binary skaters. We’ve hosted contests where most of the skaters were competing for the first time. The majority of contests in our city cater to advanced to expert level skaters. 3rd Lair does a good job at hosting women and girls events and contests, too. 

Rob Hunter, a writer for SBS magazine, recently said that “Skating is no longer merely the realm of misfits and guys who wear needlessly oversized pants. Having spread from its roots as a small counter-culture activity, skateboarding has now permeated society, leaving a surprisingly large footprint on global pop culture.”  How do you see skateboarding affecting the culture around us? (this could be a collective ideology, fashion, music, movies, mindset, ect.) 

AN: Skating is changing every day. There will always be different styles of skating, in terms of physically, mentally, or fashionably. Everyone sees skating in a different way and I think skating will always be changing and adapting to society.

RC: Skating still has that counter-culture vibe; when we skate street spots that say no skating, when we wear fun clothing that goes against societal norms, or when the people who are skating are going against gender norms. But, it also has impacted pop culture and become a lot more normalized and “trendy.” I feel like especially in fashion, this old-school skater look has become super popular. But, I think that the popularity of skating has helped more people get involved and find a new hobby and community. It has brought a lot more light to how cool skating actually is and the way that people can express themselves through a board. I think it’s brought some more respect to skating to show how fascinating and hard it actually is!

Since the first time you picked up a skateboard, the skating world has no doubt gone through changes. Have you seen this as a positive change? What specific things have you begun to notice? (more inclusivity, it being seen as a more legitimate sport, etc.)

AN: Since I started skating and becoming involved in my community, skating has had such a big and positive change. From hosting skate meetups and teaching Girls Skate Clinics, I’ve noticed so many more women, transgender, and non-binary people skating and showing up! I love it.

RC: I think the coolest thing is that people are now working with trainers for mobility and utilizing skate-specific exercises. They are starting to promote exercise and eating healthy for skating as you would for a real sport.

I think the most influential change has been that skateboarding has become so much more creative rather than who can do the best or most difficult trick. And what I mean by that is people are finding ways to expand upon tricks that may seem simple; they figure out a way to add their own twist to it. And I think that's super inspiring, because when I first started skating it was more about who can learn the hardest trick and now it's showing me that I don’t need to learn all these crazy flip tricks, but instead I can use my own imagination to try something fun. 

With that being said I feel like skating has become much less about skill level and more about community building and empowerment. It’s more about meeting folks who just want to hype you up and skate with you despite your skill level, and discovering new ways to express yourself whether that’s through a skate trick, a video, writing a zine, or understanding your own identity better. This whole shift in skating has brought so much more community and understanding especially from the male side because there is so much more exposure and normalcy around female/trans skateboarding. But again, there is still a lot more to go and learn on that! 

Many people who regularly do sports/hobbies do them as a way to find peace and community. Was this a reason you were drawn to skateboarding? What aspects of skateboarding do you find peace in? Was this feeling of solidarity continued throughout the pandemic? (why were you drawn to skateboarding in the first place, how did the pandemic affect the way you view skateboarding, if at all, etc.)

AN: This might sound lame, but I was drawn to skateboarding because it was what my friends did. Once I started skating though, I stuck with it because of the way it made me feel. There is no better feeling than trying a trick for SO long and finally landing it. It is so mentally rewarding to push myself and see the results. I also kept skating because I’ve met so many wonderful human beings through skating! Although I moved away from Minneapolis and have complained about Minnesota pretty much my whole life, there will always be a place in my heart for the Minneapolis skate scene. There is nothing closer than the the mpls skate community!

RC: I was drawn to skating in the first place just because I was always trying to find activities to do that went outside of my gender norms. I was never into typical things that other girls my age were into so it felt kind of like a form of rebellion to my gender which I loved. I also played sports my whole life and felt a lot of pressure doing so, so this was something that kind of took me away from this idea of having others rely on me for my performance that day. Don’t get me wrong, working with a team is important, but also it helped me learn how to show up for myself and how to push myself out of my comfort zone without having anyone rely on me. 

I find skating to be super therapeutic; there is no better feeling than just throwing my headphones on, listening to a good playlist, rolling around, having no pressures and just having a good time. But also on the other hand, it's a way to challenge myself- I'll go after a trick and spend hours trying it and falling, landing in weird ways, getting frustrated, but the best part is when I can land that trick because I know I put in the work for myself and only myself. My favorite part about skateboarding though is the community that comes with it. It's a community that I can always come back to and people who will always support me despite where I'm at in life and that's something that has always kept me involved. 

The pandemic actually got me back into skating more since I moved back home. I didn’t really skate much at school but once the pandemic hit and I came back to Seattle, I used it as a tool to get through the mental blocks. And, I am fortunate enough to facilitate virtual programming through SLAG which has helped me find that community again and meet so many new people from different areas. 

How do you see skateboarding changing as we continue to progress as a society? Are there any positive changes you have already noticed? Is there anything people can do to introduce skateboarding to more people? 

AN: I’ve contributed to breaking barriers by working at 3rd Lair, teaching lessons, teaching Girls Skate Clinics, being a connect between 3rd Lair and Femme Fatale when we’re hosting skate jams, showing up to skate meet ups, and just skating! It’s inspiring to see other people skating. I think, “If they can do it, so can I! Let’s be friends. They’re sick.”

RC: I think two things; finding community and engaging in regular self-talk is going to shape your whole experience. 

The buddy system is always beneficial because sometimes it can be hard to build up that confidence to go by yourself or try something by yourself at first. Find a friend or friends that you trust and feel comfortable with, whether they skate or not. I’ve noticed that some of my friends are just down to hangout with me while I skate and just enjoy watching and hyping me up. This is always nice because if I mess up or bail or something then I have a buddy to laugh it off with. However, I understand that some people may not have that. But, there is so much community online! Skate Like a Girl does virtual programming and events that help bring folks together and we even skate together virtually sometimes. Or, sometimes someone knows some other skaters in your area and tries to get you connected with them. Also, just following skaters that inspire you on social media. My favorite skater to follow right now is Marbie (@marbie.princess on IG) because she inspires me to get creative on my board and to fully express myself while doing so. Watching others skate makes me want to skate!

Speaking of which, as I kind of talked about earlier I try and put on that little self-talk shell. Even if I'm going to skate at a spot with no one else there, I still run this little speech in my head about how I'm here to have fun, there's no competition, no performance, the only person I really need to impress is myself and I can do that on my own terms. I think the biggest thing is allowing ourselves to skate how we want that day and giving ourselves permission to have fun and take the pressure off. At the end of the day, everyone is so concerned about themselves and remember that everyone learns at a different pace and in different ways.

Has skateboarding changed your life in any significant way? Have the communities you’ve met/organizations you’re a part of had a significant impact on your life? 

AN: The family that I’ve made through skating has helped me through so many tough times. I am forever grateful to have those people in my life.

RC: 100%. Skating has become a form of self-expression and has made me more comfortable to be my authentic self and not fit into this box because of my gender. I feel so happy to be myself and to live for me and only me rather than living and doing things for others or how I “should” be. By learning how to work through these barriers in skating, I have gained the tools to deal with similar situations and also pass this down to folks who may be going through similar situations. 

My long-term involvement with Skate Like a Girl has provided me with leadership skills and a sense of confidence in my ability to build community and facilitate growth. The resources, support and knowledge that I have been provided with have all shaped me into who I am today. I feel celebrated and acknowledged in this community rather than excluded- I am constantly surrounded by folks who want to see me succeed and be me, which has given me the ability to pass that down to others in skating and outside of it as well. It’s such an amazing feeling to be a part of a community that fully allows me to be Ruby and therefore helps me show up for other members of the community. 

Any last comments?

AN: I love skateboarding -I love my skate friends and family! Thanks for reaching out and giving me the opportunity to share my voice!

RC: I’ve been skating on and off for so long now and even took a four year break, but skating and the community around it have both been things that I have always been able to come back to. Skating has introduced me to so many opportunities and I have met some lifelong friends through it. I also have found my place in a community that loves and accepts me- so if you’re thinking about starting, then I say do it!